Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 04, 2009, 09:36:59 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Forum has been upgraded to SMF 1.1.4. Report any problems via PM to Troy.
33342 Posts in 3905 Topics by 2042 Members
Latest Member: blackrosejay0918
Search:     Advanced search
+  OQO Talk
|-+  General
| |-+  OQO General (Moderator: Picasso)
| | |-+  VIA Nano & Intel's Atom benchmarked head-to-head: VIA FTW!
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: VIA Nano & Intel's Atom benchmarked head-to-head: VIA FTW!  (Read 1562 times)
oqo2ar
Newbie
*
Posts: 40


View Profile
« on: July 29, 2008, 02:11:27 PM »

Interesting bit of news on the VIA front.  It seems that the VIA Nano (which I think many suspect will be in the next iteration of the OQO) flatly beat up on Intel's Atom processor (links below). 


Here:

http://www.hothardware.com/Articles/VIA_Nano_L2100_vs_Intel_Atom_230_Head_to_Head/?page=1

And Here:

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=597&type=expert
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 02:15:31 PM by oqo2ar » Logged

Best 1.6 / 120GB / Sprint / VISTA ULTIMATE
stuartguthrie
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1485


View Profile WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2008, 05:09:26 PM »

I hope that OQO stick with the VIA processor - the Nano looks very promising!!!

Thanks for the links.

Stu Smiley
Logged

--------------------------------------------------------
Being cheerful keeps you healthy. It is a slow death to be gloomy all the time. - Proverbs 17 v 22 - The Good News Bible -

Got a MySpace? Why not add me as a friend:
www.myspace.com/stuartguthriemusic
Lazarpandar
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 67


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2008, 08:08:59 PM »

I read on engadget that the via uses 42% more power than the Atom.

I've not had problems with the 02's battery life, but I do have to recharge it every night. If the battery life dropped below one charge per day, that'd be a huge problem.

I dont know how much energy the Nanos consume vs the C7Ms though
Logged

02 Best, vista, 32gb solid snake drive
sprint wwan
Kenrick
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 433


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2008, 12:58:51 AM »

I read on engadget that the via uses 42% more power than the Atom.

I've not had problems with the 02's battery life, but I do have to recharge it every night. If the battery life dropped below one charge per day, that'd be a huge problem.

I dont know how much energy the Nanos consume vs the C7Ms though

The Nano should use about the same as the C7-M.  The 1.5 Ghz C7-M has a TDP of 7.5 Watts while the 1.3 Ghz Nano has a TDP of 8 Watts.  The 1.0 Ghz nano goes down to a TDP of 5 Watts.  I believe even the 1.0 Ghz nano will be quite a bit faster than the 1.5 Ghz C7-M.

http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/07/via-nano-info-and-test-reveals-umpc-friendly-products-atom-like-performance/
Logged

OQO 02 Best
No WWAN
XP Tablet upgraded to Vista Business
Sony Vaio P
JCC
Full Member
***
Posts: 156


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2008, 05:29:59 AM »

Since this is OQOTalk, there are a few things to note:

1. They conducted the tests with a VIA part which will almost surely never be in any pocket sized tablet PC. It's not likely that any cooling system capable of evacuating 25W will be something you'd want in your pocket. (Also, that part has the highest idle power of any Nano, so it's likely the part with the worst battery life.)

They were testing desktops, not mobile devices.

2. TDP, by itself, isn't enough to assess power consumption. Very rarely will the processor be at or near TDP for any sustained period of time. What we want to know about is average power consumption. That has a direct bearing on battery life. They get into that a bit at the end. However, like I said, they're using parts unlikely to show up in a pocket sized device.

[As an aside, for whatever reason, the new Atom based devices have approximately the same battery life as the devices they replace. I suspect the same will be true for the new Nano based devices. Nano is newer than C7M. It's not unreasonable to hope that it has more aggressive power management than C7M.]

3. Both processors are "probably good enough" performers. (For the amount of power their Atom and Nano test rigs consumed though, both AMD and Intel have parts which perform better. Again, it's not like the people testing optimized to minimize power consumption.) The comparison to Athlon 64 X2 and Core 2 Duo is telling. This gets us back to the question of just exactly what do you expect to do with your pocket sized computer? (i.e., if you're expecting Athlon 64 X2 or Core 2 Duo level performance in your pocket sized computer, you'll be disappointed. I, personally, am not.)

Having said all that, I'm glad to see actual Nano performance numbers starting to come out. I hope this means that VIA will start shipping Nanos soon. I'd be happier if the parts available for review had been the U-series parts though. Those are the ones most likely to show up in an OQO, if a Nano based design is in the works.
Logged
j0
Full Member
***
Posts: 209


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2008, 09:34:14 AM »

Humm.  I didn't realize that these chips are still pretty large (well, I expected them to be smaller because the oqo is so small and half of oqo is the HD).  They look like they are the size of the old 386s. Smiley
Logged

OQO 02 1.5GHz 1GB 60GB Vista SP1
Dave P
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 854


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2008, 03:16:14 PM »

I read on engadget that the via uses 42% more power than the Atom.

I've not had problems with the 02's battery life, but I do have to recharge it every night. If the battery life dropped below one charge per day, that'd be a huge problem.

I dont know how much energy the Nanos consume vs the C7Ms though

The Nano should use about the same as the C7-M.  The 1.5 Ghz C7-M has a TDP of 7.5 Watts while the 1.3 Ghz Nano has a TDP of 8 Watts.  The 1.0 Ghz nano goes down to a TDP of 5 Watts.  I believe even the 1.0 Ghz nano will be quite a bit faster than the 1.5 Ghz C7-M.

http://www.umpcportal.com/2008/07/via-nano-info-and-test-reveals-umpc-friendly-products-atom-like-performance/


Also, it should be noted that the Nano architecture provides for additional power saving options over the C7-M. Still, if you are concerned about battery life, you are in Intel's camp. Their stated goal in the Atom was to improve battery life and keep performance steady. Via's stated goal in the Nano was the opposite - better performance and keep battery drain/life steady. I vote for faster, myself.
Logged

I'm not dead yet.

OQO Model 02 1.6ghz 32gb SSD Sprint WWAN
2disbetter
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 343


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2008, 01:58:00 AM »

Humm.  I didn't realize that these chips are still pretty large (well, I expected them to be smaller because the oqo is so small and half of oqo is the HD).  They look like they are the size of the old 386s. Smiley

You must be suprised by the C7-M size then as well, since the NANO is designed to use the same mainboards as the C7-M. Don't let that huge heat sink fool you. It's small. Just not as small as the Atom.

2d
Logged

OQO 02 Best - 1.6, 120gb, Sprint WWAN, Vista Business SP1 DVD-RW Dock
OQO 01, had a 30gb hdd (got lucky) - sold
Fujitsu P1510D
JCC
Full Member
***
Posts: 156


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2008, 05:35:09 AM »

Also, it should be noted that the Nano architecture provides for additional power saving options over the C7-M. Still, if you are concerned about battery life, you are in Intel's camp. Their stated goal in the Atom was to improve battery life and keep performance steady. Via's stated goal in the Nano was the opposite - better performance and keep battery drain/life steady. I vote for faster, myself.

The question of how to optimize for battery life is definitely tricky. The PC Perspective review talks about how Centrino 2 takes the "Hurry up and Get Idle" strategy. I think Via may be trying the same sort of thing with Nano. That is, get the work done as quickly as possible then transition to its lowest power idle state to wait until there is more work. This may be a win if it can transition between power states quickly enough and for long enough. (Obviously, this is a continuum. The U-series Nanos, because they're lower max power and lower performing, are closer to Atom in their power strategy.)

Here's another Nano vs. Atom comparison article: http://techreport.com/articles.x/15204 (Note: This article benchmarks applications that seem unlikely on a mobile device. They admit as much. However, they're testing the desktop versions of the processors.)

I did a quick scan. Not surprisingly, like the other articles, they show that Atom and Nano consume approximately the same amount of energy for a given task, Nano just does it over a shorter time. (Which one consumes slightly less energy depends on which article you're reading.) Keep in mind though that this is the Nano desktop part with the 25W TDP. The U-series parts won't jump 20W in power consumption when heavily loaded. Of course, it's also unlikely to get as much work done per unit time. If we make the rather dangerous assumption that performance scales linearly with clock speed, we get the conclusion that the U-series parts will likely be more energy efficient.
(i.e., if we assume that a task takes the 1.8 GHz L series part 1 second at 20W, and the 1.3GHz U series part 1.38 seconds at 8W, the latter still only consumed ~11 joules rather than 20. Again, this assumes that performance scales linearly. Big assumption.)

One possible conclusion is that the L series part is too far on one end of the continuum. This isn't really surprising since this is their desktop part. Power consumption probably isn't their prime worry here. How ever well, nor not well, the L series part does, the U series may do better by pulling back towards the "slow and steady" end of the continuum. It obviously does not pull as far back as Atom has.

A more audacious leap to conclusion might be that Atom may have gone too far towards the "slow and steady" side of the continuum. i.e., a computationally more powerful device might actually be more power efficient, if it can get to its lowest power state quickly enough and stay there long enough. Again, keep in mind that this is the desktop version of Atom. It explicitly does not have some of the power-saving bells and whistles that Intel puts in their mobile device version. We don't have enough data to justify any conclusions anyway.

Ultimately, I suspect that it'll still work out that the mobile versions of Nano and Atom will consume approximately the same number of joules to accomplish a given task. I doubt either design is particularly wasteful. The Nano may finish the task more quickly though. (i.e., consume those same number of joules over a shorter period of time. Higher wattage.)

If you are constantly pinning CPU utilization then, the Nano strategy will result in shorter battery life. However, that's not the typical scenario, especially for a mobile device. In the typical scenario, your computer spends much of its time waiting for you. In that case, assuming the two processors have roughly the same idle power, assuming they transition to and from their lowest power states about as quickly, they'll probably consume about the same amount of power. You'll just see your results faster with the Nano. (OS background processes may screw this up. YMMV.)

If you really are constantly pinning CPU utilization, there's no happy solution. I mean, yes, in that scenario, Atom will have consume less power per unit time, but it also will have done less work per unit time. After the battery has drained, you will have gotten about the same amount work done as the Nano. It will have just taken longer. The moral of the story is: don't do that on a battery operated device.

Just to make this point again: This is speculation on my part. A lot of this depends on how quickly they can transition into and out of their lowest power states. I, obviously, don't have access to that sort of information. If I had to guess, I'd say that Atom and Nano will, in general, be comparable. The right part to use will really depend on the specific use. (i.e., Nano is 64 bit, potentially higher performing, pin compatible with C7M. Atom ought to fit into thermally constrained situations where you can't evacuate more than a couple watts of heat. It's dual threaded which may be an advantage in easily parallelizable throughput bound workloads.)
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Powered by SMF 1.1.9 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Design by 7dana.com

OQO is a registered trademark of OQO, Inc. of San Francisco, CA